After taking the stand as a DOJ witness on Day One of many authorities’s advert tech antitrust trial in opposition to Google in Virginia final month, Kevel CEO and Founder James Avery despatched AdExchanger’s protection of his testimony to his mother and father.
“It was like, ‘Wow, take a look at our son,’” Avery mentioned. “You recognize, it’s uncommon I get to share an article about what I do with my mother and father and it is smart to them.”
However past making his mother and father proud, taking part as a witness in a historic antitrust trial was gratifying for an additional motive.
“I by no means thought I’d have an opportunity to essentially say my piece like this,” Avery mentioned.
Avery was known as as a authorities witness as a result of Kevel – again earlier than its rebrand from Adzerk in 2020 – had tried and didn’t compete with Google within the advert server market. To outlive, Kevel was compelled to pivot its enterprise mannequin away from the open net and into retail media.
Avery advised the court docket he “rapidly realized [the ad server market] was not a market we might win due to the tie between Google’s demand by AdX.” He additionally mentioned Kevel misplaced quite a few clients to DFP, and when he was requested what number of publishers Kevel was in a position to persuade to modify from DFP to its personal advert server, Avery responded: “I don’t know of any.”
Avery spoke with AdExchanger.
AdExchanger: Was this your first time ever testifying? Have been you nervous?
JAMES AVERY: It was my first time, however I wasn’t overly nervous. It was extra bizarre than something. As a result of earlier than you testify, you sit in a again room with no telephone, no electronics and no clue after they’re going to come back and get you.
As soon as I used to be up there, although, I did suppose the choose would ask me extra questions. However she didn’t actually try this.
She appeared like she was in commentary mode, particularly originally of the trial. Did any of the questions you had been requested by both the federal government or Google’s legal professionals shock you?
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One which got here out of left area was when Google requested a few weblog put up on our web site [from 2022] that I hadn’t even written about conventional publishers constructing advert platforms.
Proper. As proof that conventional publishers weren’t compelled to depend on Google’s advert tech instruments.
Not one of the corporations talked about within the weblog are our clients. It was simply advertising and marketing. Wishful considering, ? And that’s what I mentioned, that that is simply advertising and marketing fluff.
I bear in mind Google’s lawyer requested if you happen to deliberate to take the weblog put up down, because it’s not true, and also you mentioned “no.”
That’s proper. We’re leaving it up, and I nearly need to put a word on the high: “As seen in US v. Google!”
Ha, you must try this. And there was additionally a 2019 electronic mail change that got here up through the trial between you and our govt editor, Sarah Sluis, in regards to the tie between DFP and AdX. How did that find yourself as proof?
We had been subpoenaed and needed to share all communications that met sure standards, together with that electronic mail with Sarah the place I mentioned, “seems monopolies are fairly efficient.” I used to be requested to reread it throughout my deposition, and I bear in mind I began laughing, as a result of it was good to see that I nonetheless agreed with myself.
At one level, while you had been on the stand, you mentioned that publishers don’t depart DFP as a result of they’re “deathly afraid” of getting banned from AdX. Are you aware of any publishers that truly acquired banned from AdX for that motive?
As I recall, I used to be answering a query about whether or not there have been different methods to get entry to Google demand past AdX.
And sure, there could possibly be potential hacks to do it. For instance, we’d thought of whether or not we might get the tag to render after which examine it not directly. However you then may be doing one thing exterior the authorised phrases – and no writer will contact something that might probably get them banned.
We’ve talked to publishers who’ve been banned from AdX for different causes, like a content material challenge or one thing like that, and it was massively detrimental to their enterprise. Google has, like, zero customer support, so that you’re simply out within the chilly till you possibly can name in a favor and hopefully discover any individual that will help you.
When did it grow to be clear that Adzerk needed to shift its enterprise from being an advert server for open net show to give attention to retail media and commerce?
We all the time knew we had been making an attempt to compete with the largest participant, however on the time, round 2010/2011, Google wasn’t the one advert server available on the market. Different advert tech corporations had advert servers, like OpenX. However then they began to close down, and their publishers would simply go straight to Google.
Normally, when there’s a shutdown in advert tech, it’s kind of a free-for-all. Oracle Promoting shutting down is one instance and we’re additionally seeing it now with Microsoft shutting down PromoteIQ. There needs to be a chance to win their clients. However that didn’t occur when OpenX and others shut down their advert servers.
Throughout your testimony, you mentioned you’d requested Google a number of occasions for a solution to combine immediately into AdX, however you had been rebuffed and given no rationalization. Simply to play Satan’s advocate, why ought to Google be obligated to provide different advert servers entry to its change?
I don’t suppose they need to be obligated to do it. That is extra a query of whether or not Google has a monopoly place and whether or not they’re abusing it. Take a look at Microsoft. There wasn’t something unlawful about Microsoft constructing an internet browser. The difficulty was Microsoft abusing its desktop monopoly by bundling.
I don’t suppose it’s the federal government’s job to pressure Google to deal immediately with Kevel or with anybody. However I feel it’s honest to say Google ought to have to reveal its demand in the identical approach each different associate within the business is exposing their demand.
If Google launched a header bidder, it will be wonderful for the ecosystem, as a result of publishers wouldn’t want a direct integration. All they’d want is Prebid.
What do you suppose the end result of this trial will probably be if Google loses?
If I needed to place a wager, I’d say the choose makes Google spin out the advert server and AdX. That’s the place I feel it’s headed.
However who is aware of? The one factor we all know for positive is that Google will attraction.
This interview has been evenly edited and condensed.
For extra articles that includes James Avery, click on right here.
